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Minnesota vs Massachusetts High School Hockey


I've wondered periodically if we had an easy way to evaluate the difference between various high school hockey leagues.  Most high school players jump to one of the USHL, NAHL or NCAA, but those leagues tend to not be too concerned with collecting scoring data from high school.  And while states tend to post scoring leaders for the entire state each year, I found that players often play under slightly different names in college and junior, which makes matching up the two databases a huge pain.

Star-divide

What we can do, however, is look at players who ended up playing in the NHL to see how they did in high school at Age 17 or 18, and then how they did the next season in another league.  Because I'm looking only at NHL players, that next league has historically been the NCAA - while many high school players go to the USHL today, it has yet to catch up to the college numbers over the last 25 years.

At any rate, I have data for only two states that produced a lot of NHL players - Minnesota and Massachusetts.  (I could probably find the Michigan data, but I wanted this to be easy!)  I ran the standard NHL Equivalency analysis on each group, which gave me the following equivalencies from each high school league to the NCAA:

Minn: 0.31, stdev = 0.30

Mass: 0.30, stdev = 0.17

These figures both point to an NHLE of approximately 0.12 for each league, which is almost as good as the ECHL!  This is substantially higher than the 0.05 or so that I previously predicted for Minnesota High School Hockey, but my previous projection used every high scorer over a five-year period, not just players who made the jump to the NHL.  It should be obvious that future NHL players are better than the typical guy who scores 30 goals as a senior in high school, and we would expect to see them retain a higher percentage of their performance when they go to the NCAA. 

So in picking only future NHL players for the dataset, I engaged in selection bias that skewed the final result.  However, there is one important conclusion that can be drawn from this data, and that is that Minnesota and Massachusetts HS hockey have been roughly equivalent in quality over the last 25 years.  But we can also see from the much larger standard deviation on the Minnesota estimate that the quality of hockey varies much more around the state than it does in Massachusetts.  This isn't surprising - Minnesota is a huge state, geographically, and high school teams are isolated from each other in a way that isn't possible in a small state.  So the relative caliber of opposing teams can vary tremendously in a way that it wouldn't if you drove in to Boston for a couple of games every other weekend.

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Conclusion? People that went to high school in Minnesota are awesome!

Jon Casey fan since '84

by stufflife on Oct 6, 2009 12:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Or Massachusetts!

Join me on the Hockey Blog Adventure! (or Twitter.) GO BRUINS! (and Wild!)

by Cornelius Hardenbergh on Oct 6, 2009 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe it was confirmed a long time ago that there is only one high school of any consequence in the world:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7b6Ff9Qm2FU

by Hawerchuk on Oct 6, 2009 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would assume that the population differences play a part in this as well

There is a huge difference between a 1A team on the iron range and say Holy Angels. Although to tell you the truth I have no idea about the demographics of Mass. It just seems like it is more big city/suburbs there whereas there is a metro area and then the rural areas in Minnesota

http://twinkietalk.com
http://thecollegehockeyblog.com

by fetch9 on Oct 6, 2009 2:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

You definitely see that when you include all of the players who are big scorers. But the guys who made it to the NHL came mostly from the Minneapolis area, or from Rochester, Duluth and Moorhead. Small town guys tend to come from known schools – Warroad, Roseau, Grand Rapids, Hibbing, Virginia. Guys like Ken Gernander (from Coleraine) are few and far between.

by Hawerchuk on Oct 6, 2009 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

NY>MA

What about NY? Gotta be up there with Mass, IDK about Minny though.

by Rob Luker on Oct 6, 2009 2:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

My NY high school database is crap. I have Northwood High and that’s about it. I’m working on getting an intern to piece all these databases together.

by Hawerchuk on Oct 6, 2009 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Northwood

Northwood is prep, by the way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_high_school_hockey

That list above is very very accurate, including championships. IMO, NY state high school hockey is below Minny and above Massachusetts.

by Rob Luker on Oct 6, 2009 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I looked at hockey-reference for high school information. They list prep schools as “NY-HS” or “Minn-HS” even if they don’t play in the high school league. I seriously need that intern to come on board.

by Hawerchuk on Oct 6, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

high school stars

Interesting shot at rating the two states high school stars. What are the total sample #‘s, i wonder. I’d guess that MN has twice as many players, anyway. Maybe that’s why my gut says MN has more and better stars. Aren’t there more “star” calibre NHL players.

enough to go around andy

by bombadier on Oct 7, 2009 9:42 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Oddly, there were 66 future NHL players from each state who went directly from high school to the NCAA.

by Hawerchuk on Oct 7, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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